taken from Muiravonside Parish Marriages (1692 - 1875)
Message from Karen Hemingway may contain a possible link. Certainly matches up in names already got
"While I am still trying to find out about John and Helen, I did come across a John Frater and Janet Forgie married in 1770 in Borrowstounness who went on to have 6 children but recorded as FRAITER.
The children were:
Christian (F) born 1771
John (M) born 1773
Henry (M) born 1776
Jean (F) born 1778
James (M) born 1781 and
Janet (F) born 1786.
Janet may be the daughter of John Forgie and Christian Gourlie and born 1749 in Muiravonside"
Data from published details on
http://www.guernsey.net/~sgibbs/runciman/tr-ag.pdf
Data from published details on
http://www.guernsey.net/~sgibbs/runciman/tr-ag.pdf
28 Aug 2003
Received a letter from Conrad Frater with copy of tree produced by his father Edward C Frater.This is the only John born in Polmont of the same time period. So it is an educated guess
1861 census
Agness Frater Age: 50 Estimated birth year: abt 1811 Relationship: Wife Gender: Female Where born: Campsie, Stirlingshire
Registration Number: 476 Registration district: Denny Civil parish: Denny Town: Denny County: Stirlingshire
Address: Flighers Ship Stirling St ED: 3 Page: 24 Household schedule number: 142 Line: 21 Roll: CSSCT1861_63
Spouse's name : John
Household Members: Name Age
John Frater 58
Agness Frater 50
Janes Frater 15
Wm Frater 18
This is the only John born in Polmont of the same time period. So it is an educated guess
1861 census
Agness Frater Age: 50 Estimated birth year: abt 1811 Relationship: Wife Gender: Female Where born: Campsie, Stirlingshire
Registration Number: 476 Registration district: Denny Civil parish: Denny Town: Denny County: Stirlingshire
Address: Flighers Ship Stirling St ED: 3 Page: 24 Household schedule number: 142 Line: 21 Roll: CSSCT1861_63
Spouse's name : John
Household Members: Name Age
John Frater 58
Agness Frater 50
Janes Frater 15
Wm Frater 18
This is the only John born in Polmont of the same time period. So it is an educated guess
1861 census
Agness Frater Age: 50 Estimated birth year: abt 1811 Relationship: Wife Gender: Female Where born: Campsie, Stirlingshire
Registration Number: 476 Registration district: Denny Civil parish: Denny Town: Denny County: Stirlingshire
Address: Flighers Ship Stirling St ED: 3 Page: 24 Household schedule number: 142 Line: 21 Roll: CSSCT1861_63
Spouse's name : John
Household Members: Name Age
John Frater 58
Agness Frater 50
Janes Frater 15
Wm Frater 18
This is the only John born in Polmont of the same time period. So it is an educated guess
1861 census
Agness Frater Age: 50 Estimated birth year: abt 1811 Relationship: Wife Gender: Female Where born: Campsie, Stirlingshire
Registration Number: 476 Registration district: Denny Civil parish: Denny Town: Denny County: Stirlingshire
Address: Flighers Ship Stirling St ED: 3 Page: 24 Household schedule number: 142 Line: 21 Roll: CSSCT1861_63
Spouse's name : John
Household Members: Name Age
John Frater 58
Agness Frater 50
Janes Frater 15
Wm Frater 18
Details from Alan Wise
Details from Alan Wise.
Known to have existed as he was a witness to sister Elizabeth's marriage
E-mail from Dale Piercey 21.6.2003
I don't have all details, but when Robert married Margaret ORMISTON the records gave his name as Robert RATTRAY and this has caused some difficulty in tracing details. He worked for the Duchess of Sutherland and travelled through the centre of Scotland to Balnakeil, where he died in 1854. Margaret died in 1849.Data from Alan Wise
Robert RATRAY(FRATER) married Margaret ORMISTON on Dec 4th 1821 at Farr, Sutherland, Scotland IGI Batch M110504
Details from Alan Wise
E-mail from Dale Piercey 21.6.2003
I don't have all details, but when Robert married Margaret ORMISTON the records gave his name as Robert RATTRAY and this has caused some difficulty in tracing details. He worked for the Duchess of Sutherland and travelled through the centre of Scotland to Balnakeil, where he died in 1854. Margaret died in 1849.Data from Alan Wise
Robert RATRAY(FRATER) married Margaret ORMISTON on Dec 4th 1821 at Farr, Sutherland, Scotland IGI Batch M110504
Details from Alan Wise
Child name given in email from Dale Piercey - 21.6.2003
from http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
Surname Forenames Sex B/M/D Date Parish Mother's Name Father's Name GROS Data
Frater Jamesina F B Oct 22 1839 Creich Margaret Ormost Robert Frater 046/00 0002
Child name given in email from Dale Piercey - 21.6.2003
Cannot find her in England & Wales BMD Fiche. Might have been born in Scotland if birth date is correct.
Child name given in email from Dale Piercey - 21.6.2003
From Dale Piercey email 21.6.2003
I don't have all details, but when Robert married Margaret ORMISTON the records gave his name as Robert RATTRAY and this has caused some difficulty in tracing details. He worked for the Duchess of Sutherland and travelled through the centre of Scotland to Balnakeil, where he died in 1854. Margaret died in 1849.Their children were Jane (=David MURRAY 1/3/1840), Elizabeth, Margaret (= William MUNRO 4/4/1848), Mary (= John CAIRNS 25/5/1849), Agnes, Esther, Walter, Johanne, Jamesina. There may also have been a son Robert(?) who married Margaret WAUGH. We have been unable to find any birth for him, but he was in the same areas as the rest of the family.
From Dale Piercey email 21.6.2003
I don't have all details, but when Robert married Margaret ORMISTON the records gave his name as Robert RATTRAY and this has caused some difficulty in tracing details. He worked for the Duchess of Sutherland and travelled through the centre of Scotland to Balnakeil, where he died in 1854. Margaret died in 1849.Their children were Jane (=David MURRAY 1/3/1840), Elizabeth, Margaret (= William MUNRO 4/4/1848), Mary (= John CAIRNS 25/5/1849), Agnes, Esther, Walter, Johanne, Jamesina. There may also have been a son Robert(?) who married Margaret WAUGH. We have been unable to find any birth for him, but he was in the same areas as the rest of the family.
Was a shepherd in Loubcroy when Mary died in 1865
email from Dale Piercey - 22.6.2003 extra notes
twin to margaret