Fanny Elizabeth SUTTON has been described by SHORT descendants as a larger than life character who liked rich men and wore lots of gold and jewellery. She was known for throwing her house open on Sundays to the whole family and expected all the children and grandchildren for Sunday dinner. Her houses were much bigger than most with better facilities and the grandchildren were expected to have their weekly bath at her house. There have been at least three reports from her grandchildren, and their cousins too, who remembered regularly playing at the house and having a really good time.
Post 1901, after the death of James Dempster SHORT, Fanny Elizabeth SUTTON remarried Sep Q 1909 6d 147 Joseph CARTER. Fanny known to kept ‘The Horse & Jockey’ public house and later ‘The Cup’, both in Sutton Coldfield.
1861 Cen. Birmingham St George, with parents at 107 ?King? John Street,
KF 1881 census
Mount Pleasant, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3048/93 Page 12
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James D. SHORT Head M Male 43 Aston, Warwick, England Iron Founder
Fanney E. SHORT Wife M Female 26 Bham, Warwick, England
Charlotte L. SHORT Daughter Female 22 Bham, Warwick, England
James W. SHORT Son Male 20 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Mary A. SHORT Daughter Female 18 Bham, Warwick, England Pupil Teacher
Albert SHORT Son Male 3 Stechford, Warwick, England
Florrie SHORT Daughter Female 2 Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Earnest D. SHORT Son Male 3 m Washwood Heath, Warwick, England
Jennie NICHOLAS Visitor Female 21 Pershore, Worcester, England1891 Cen. Living 366 New John St, St Georges parish, Birmingham with second wife; children of first wife Charlotte Louisa & James William - caster; children of second wife Albert, Fanny Florence, Ernest, Percival, Alfred Leonard & Ethel; also two domestic servants. James Dempster’s occupation: Licensed Victualler public house
1901 Cen. Living Aston Tavern, 10 Aston Road, Aston Manor with wife; child by first wife Charlotte Louisa - barmaid; children by second marriage Albert - musician, Fanny Florence - barmaid, Ernest Dempster - Clerk ?Brewery?, Percival - railway clerk, Ethel, Harold, Victor James & Howard; also present servant-nursemaid aged 12
Fanny was known to kept ‘The Horse & Jockey’ public house and later ‘The Cup’, both in Sutton Coldfield but I am not sure whether these two pubs were kept during, or after, the lifetime of husband James
email from Mike Short - details from marriage cert.
register office, Birmingham SH3.1A.7BS Fanny Elizabeth SUTTON b. 1855/6 Birmingham, daughter of William SUTTON, tool manufacturer, witnesses: Charlotte Louisa SHORT (eldest child of James by first marriage) & William SUTTON. Fanny’s address at marriage: 107 New John Street, Birmingham.email from Mike Short
occupation tool maker awl blades
email from Mike Short 8.9.2006
Father: Thomas TALBUT a bell hanger, b. 5 Oct 1809 Birmingham, bpt. 5 Oct 1810 St Phillip's Birmingham (parents: Joseph TALBUT/TALBUTT & Charlotte, siblings (dates show b. and bpt. at St Phillips) William 27 Apr 1805 & 1 Jan 1806; Joseph 9 Apr 1807 & 21 May 1807; Amelia 31 Jan 1812 & 20 Jul 1812)
Mother: Charlotte SCAMBLER b. 25 Mar 1815, bpt. 8 May 1815 St Martin, Birmingham (Parents: Edward SCAMBLER & Maria BELLAMY m. 25 Nov 1798 Edgebaston. Edward SCAMBLER was bpt. 2 Apr 1777 Birmingham, parents m. 16 Sep 1766, Robert SCAMBLER bpt. 1 Oct 1736, & Sarah GREAVES. SCAMBLERS in Warwickshire on IGI from 1626)
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1871 Cen. living at 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham with first wife ; children John Henry, William, Alice, Emma & Lizzie. John’s occupation: Iron CasterKF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, England1891 Cen. Living with Husband’s mother, Harriet,at Huckster's Shop (near Swan Hotel), Washwood Heath, Saltley, Birmingham; with husband, children Fanny Harriet & Henry. Husband’s occupation: Railway carriage builder
1901 Cen. living Stadefield Lane, Aston, Warwickshire with husband - coach builder; children Fanny Harriet WINDRIDGE b. 1877/8 Birmingham, SH5.1A.8A.3.2 Henry WINDRIDGE b. 1889 Birmingham & Emma WINDRIDGE b. 1891 Birmingham
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1871 Cen. living at 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham with first wife ; children John Henry, William, Alice, Emma & Lizzie. John’s occupation: Iron CasterKF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, England1891 Cen. boarding at 166 Great Francis Street, Aston, Birmingham. Occupation: Enameller.
1901 Cen. living 'Three Horseshoes Beer House' 92 Irving Street, St Thomas, Birmingham with husband - Brass Primer (and, presumably, beer house keeper); their children Lily Emma GILBERT b. 1894/5 Birmingham, Charles Henry GILBERT b. 1896 Birmingham & SH5.1A.8A.5.3 Nellie GILBERT b. 1898/9 Birmingham
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1871 Cen. living at 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham with first wife ; children John Henry, William, Alice, Emma & Lizzie. John’s occupation: Iron CasterKF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, Englandemail from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. boarding at 166 Great Francis Street, Aston, Birmingham. Occupation: Enameller.
1901 Cen. living 'Three Horseshoes Beer House' 92 Irving Street, St Thomas, Birmingham with husband - Brass Primer (and, presumably, beer house keeper); their children
Lily Emma GILBERT b. 1894/5 Birmingham
Charles Henry GILBERT b. 1896 Birmingham
Nellie GILBERT b. 1898/9 Birmingham
1881 Cen. 45 Sheep St in Aston, Birmingham. Living with his second wife: children by first marriage, John Henry, William, Alice, Emma, Lizzie, Ellen & Charlotte; and daughter Agnes Florence by second marriage. Daughter Maud by second marriage is not present and has been found at the home of SH3.9.1 William SHORT.
KF 1881 census
45 Sheep St, Birmingham, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 2990/116 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John SHORT Head M Male 40 Bham, Warwick, England Iron Foundriesman
John SHORT Son U Male 18 Bham, Warwick, England Caster
William SHORT Son U Male 16 Birmingham, Warwick, England Iron Caster
Agnes SHORT Wife M Female 30 Birmingham, Warwick, England Housewife
Alice SHORT Daughter U Female 15 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Help
Emma SHORT Daughter U Female 14 Birmingham, Warwick, England General Servant
Lizzie SHORT Daughter U Female 12 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Ellen SHORT Daughter U Female 9 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Charlotte SHORT Daughter U Female 7 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Agnes F. SHORT Daughter U Female 1 Birmingham, Warwick, England1891 Cen. Living 'Red Lion' Public House, 199 High Street, Aston, Birmingham. Occupation: Barmaid.
1901 Cen. living 14 Godwin Street, Aston, Birmingham with husband - glass sign maker; their children Minnie Gertrude GOFF b. 1895 Birmingham, Nellie Florence GOFF b. 1898 Birmingham & Hilda Jane GOFF b. 1899 Birmingham
1891 Cen. At 60 ?Cluster? Road, Handsworth (St John), Staffordshire with second wife; child by first marriage, William - aged 28, Occ: Carter; children by second marriage, Maud, Agnes Florence shown as ‘Florence’, Bertie George, Elsie Gertrude May, Daisy May, Ralph Victor & Violet Beatrice. John’s occupation: Retired Iron Founder
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1901 Cen. Living 68 Carlisle Street, Rotton Park, (St Cuthberts) Birmingham with parents. Occupation: JewellerA photograph of Ralph Victor SHORT is on his own family page
Son of Hellen/Ellen SHORT by earlier relationship
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1841 Cen. Living Canal Street, Birmingham parish with mother, brother and mother’s parents1851 Cen. Living Pritchett Street, Birmingham St Stephens with son John James by earlier relationship; husband and their daughter Ellen. Husband’s occupation: Boat Wharf Labourer
1861 Cen. 5 Bowyer Street, Deritend & Bordesley, Birmingham with mother and stepfather; brother, step brother & stepsisters. Also present 2 lodgers inc 1 blind, and a visitor. Occupation: Iron Wire Drawer
1871 Cen: living 13 Parry Place, Plumstead, Kent - wire drawer, with wife Amelia b. 1846/7 Birmingham, and ‘niece’ Elizabeth SHORT b. abt. 1865. This is brother William’s daughter, Elizabeth.
1881 Cen. Wife Amelia, and their two children Charles SHORT aged 4 b. Woolwich Arsenal & Annie E SHORT aged 1 b. Birmingham staying with mother & stepfather at 1 Thornton Buildings, Bordesley, Birmingham but John James not present and not traced further
1881 census
4 Thornton Blds, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3018/25 Page 3
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Charles JONES Head M Male 60 Birmingham General Labourer
Ellen JONES Wife M Female 64 BirminghamAmelia SHORT Dau In Law (Head) M Female 35 Birmingham Screw Worker
Charles SHORT Son Male 4 Woolwich Arsenal
Annie E. SHORT Dau Female 1 BirminghamGeorge S. JENKINS Son In Law (Head) M Male 31 Hay, Brecknock, Wales Labourer General
Eliza A. JENKINS Wife M Female 28 Aston, Warwick, England
Jane JENKINS Dau Female 1 Birmingham
Ellen LINES Lodger U Female 41 Birmingham Iron Bedstead Painter
William T. LINES Son Male 9 Birmingham Scholar
1881 census
4 Thornton Blds, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3018/25 Page 3
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Charles JONES Head M Male 60 Birmingham General Labourer
Ellen JONES Wife M Female 64 BirminghamAmelia SHORT Dau In Law (Head) M Female 35 Birmingham Screw Worker
Charles SHORT Son Male 4 Woolwich Arsenal
Annie E. SHORT Dau Female 1 BirminghamGeorge S. JENKINS Son In Law (Head) M Male 31 Hay, Brecknock, Wales Labourer General
Eliza A. JENKINS Wife M Female 28 Aston, Warwick, England
Jane JENKINS Dau Female 1 Birmingham
Ellen LINES Lodger U Female 41 Birmingham Iron Bedstead Painter
William T. LINES Son Male 9 Birmingham Scholar
1881 census
4 Thornton Blds, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO Ref RG11 Piece/Folio 3018/25 Page 3
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Charles JONES Head M Male 60 Birmingham General Labourer
Ellen JONES Wife M Female 64 BirminghamAmelia SHORT Dau In Law (Head) M Female 35 Birmingham Screw Worker
Charles SHORT Son Male 4 Woolwich Arsenal
Annie E. SHORT Dau Female 1 BirminghamGeorge S. JENKINS Son In Law (Head) M Male 31 Hay, Brecknock, Wales Labourer General
Eliza A. JENKINS Wife M Female 28 Aston, Warwick, England
Jane JENKINS Dau Female 1 Birmingham
Ellen LINES Lodger U Female 41 Birmingham Iron Bedstead Painter
William T. LINES Son Male 9 Birmingham Scholar