not found on the 1881 census. Had they already left for Australia by then?
census details from Mike Short emailed 8.4.2006
1881 Cen. Living 1 Mount Terrace, Cattell Road, Aston (wrongly enumerated as James GREEN) with wife; children Francis Paul (Frank) & Herbert William (Bert)1891 Cen. Living 19 Grove Terrace, Handsworth, Staffordshire with wife; children Francis Paul (Frank), & Herbert William (Bert), Sidney, Cyril, Walter& Maude. Occupation: Brassfounder. Also present is sister Clara BRADLEY - Warehouse woman
1901 Cen. Living 142 Murdoch Road, Handsworth, Staffordshire with wife; children Francis Paul (Frank) - Brassfounder fitter, Herbert William (Bert) - Gunmaker driller miller, Cyril - Brass chandelier maker, Walter, Hydraulic engineer turner, Maude, Gertrude, Stanley, Dorothy, Raymond & Hilda J. Francis William’s occupation: Brassfounder Fitter. Note: Sidney is not present on and has not been traced. Also present is sister Clara BRADLEY - Papier Mache Maker
In the following year, 1861 Eliza appears on the 1861 census as 11 mths old living with her parents, George Bradley, aged 31 a Paper Maker born in Newbury, Berks, and her mother Emma, aged 25, and her older sister,Emma aged 5. The full address is given as 9, Eden Place, Guildford Street. (See 'Emma Short and the Shorts' p.3-4). Since this 1861 census was taken on April 27th Eliza should really be 1 year old.
On the 1871 census Eliza aged 11 is recorded as living at 21 Walsall Road with her parents, and her sisters Emma aged 15, and Clara aged 7 and her brother George aged 5.
not found on the 1881 census. Had they already left for Australia by then?
Maureen's notes:
All Emma Green's family emigrated to Australia except possibly Bert Green & family. Frank & Stanley (& possibly Cyril) quarrelled with their father and therefore changed their surnames to Hill. I met Maud, Gertie & Stan at the house he was building in Slack's Creek, Queensland, Australia in 1965. I did not get much conversation with Maud & Gertie as Stan never stopped talking. He thought he knew everything. He wrote a letter to Granddad saying I was 'lily-livered' for not staying to live in Australia, so I wrote back and told him off.
I met Joan & family in Sydney in 1965 but they were about to move. I've lost their address. They seemed nice people.
==================================================================census details from Mike Short
1881 Cen. Living 1 Mount Terrace, Cattell Road, Aston (husband wrongly enumerated as James GREEN) with husband; children Francis Paul (Frank) & Herbert William (Bert)1891 Cen. Living 19 Grove Terrace, Handsworth, Staffordshire with husband - Brassfounder; and children Francis Paul (Frank), & Herbert William (Bert), Sydney (or Sidney), Cyril, Walter& Maude. Also present is sister Clara BRADLEY - Warehouse woman
1901 Cen. Living 142 Murdoch Road, Handsworth, Staffordshire with husband - Brassfounder fitter; children Francis Paul (Frank) - Brassfounder fitter, Herbert William (Bert) - Gunmaker driller miller, Cyril - Brass chandelier maker, Walter, Hydraulic engineer turner, Maude, Gertrude, Stanley, Dorothy, Raymond & Hilda J. Note: Sydney (or Sidney) is not present on and has not been traced. Also present is sister Clara BRADLEY - Papier Mache Maker
Francis Paul (Frank) GREEN KNOWN AS HILL
Maureen's notes:
All Emma Green's family emigrated to Australia except possibly Bert Green & family. Frank & Stanley (& possibly Cyril) quarrelled with their father and therefore changed their surnames to Hill. I met Maud, Gertie & Stan at the house he was building in Slack's Creek, Queensland, Australia in 1965. I did not get much conversation with Maud & Gertie as Stan never stopped talking. He thought he knew everything. He wrote a letter to Granddad saying I was 'lily-livered' for not staying to live in Australia, so I wrote back and told him off.
I met Joan & family in Sydney in 1965 but they were about to move. I've lost their address. They seemed nice people.
==================================================================census details from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1881 Cen. Living 1 Mount Terrace, Cattell Road, Aston (father wrongly enumerated as James GREEN) with parents
1891 Cen. Living 19 Grove Terrace, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents
1901 Cen. Living 142 Murdoch Road, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents. Occupation: Brassfounder Fitter
Emigrated Australia
Quarrelled with father and changed surname to HILL as did brother Stanley and, possibly, Cyril
No further information
census details from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. Living 19 Grove Terrace, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents
1901 Cen. not traced
No further information
census details from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. Living 19 Grove Terrace, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents
1901 Cen. Living 142 Murdoch Road, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents. Occupation: Brass Chandelier Maker
Emigrated Australia
Brothers Stanley and Francis Paul (Frank) quarrelled with father and changed surname to HILL, thought that Cyril may have done also
No further information
census details from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. Living 19 Grove Terrace, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents
1901 Cen. Living 142 Murdoch Road, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents. Occupation: Hydraulic Engineer Turner
Emigrated Australia
No further information
Maureen's notes:
All Emma Green's family emigrated to Australia except possibly Bert Green & family. Frank & Stanley (& possibly Cyril) quarrelled with their father and therefore changed their surnames to Hill. I met Maud, Gertie & Stan at the house he was building in Slack's Creek, Queensland, Australia in 1965. I did not get much conversation with Maud & Gertie as Stan never stopped talking. He thought he knew everything. He wrote a letter to Granddad saying I was 'lily-livered' for not staying to live in Australia, so I wrote back and told him off.
I met Joan & family in Sydney in 1965 but they were about to move. I've lost their address. They seemed nice people.
==================================================================census details from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1891 Cen. Living 19 Grove Terrace, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents
Emigrated Australia
No further information
Maureen's notes:
All Emma Green's family emigrated to Australia except possibly Bert Green & family. Frank & Stanley (& possibly Cyril) quarrelled with their father and therefore changed their surnames to Hill. I met Maud, Gertie & Stan at the house he was building in Slack's Creek, Queensland, Australia in 1965. I did not get much conversation with Maud & Gertie as Stan never stopped talking. He thought he knew everything. He wrote a letter to Granddad saying I was 'lily-livered' for not staying to live in Australia, so I wrote back and told him off.
I met Joan & family in Sydney in 1965 but they were about to move. I've lost their address. They seemed nice people.
==================================================================census details from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1901 Cen. Living 142 Murdoch Road, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents
Emigrated Australia
No further information
Maureen's notes:
All Emma Green's family emigrated to Australia except possibly Bert Green & family. Frank & Stanley (& possibly Cyril) quarrelled with their father and therefore changed their surnames to Hill. I met Maud, Gertie & Stan at the house he was building in Slack's Creek, Queensland, Australia in 1965. I did not get much conversation with Maud & Gertie as Stan never stopped talking. He thought he knew everything. He wrote a letter to Granddad saying I was 'lily-livered' for not staying to live in Australia, so I wrote back and told him off.
I met Joan & family in Sydney in 1965 but they were about to move. I've lost their address. They seemed nice people.
==================================================================census details from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1901 Cen. Living 142 Murdoch Road, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents
Emigrated Australia
Quarrelled with father and changed surname to HILL as did brother Francis Paul (Frank) and, possibly, Cyril
No further information
census details from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1901 Cen. Living 142 Murdoch Road, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents
Emigrated Australia
No further information
census details from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1901 Cen. Living 142 Murdoch Road, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents
Emigrated Australia
No further information
census details from Mike Short 8.4.2006
1901 Cen. Living 142 Murdoch Road, Handsworth, Staffordshire with parents
Emigrated Australia
No further information
1881 census
9 Needham Street, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 3035/135 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Frances William GREEN Head M Male 48 Birmingham, Warwick, England Carpenter
Eliza Stone GREEN Wife M Female 59 Birmingham, Warwick, England ((Carpenter))
Elena GREEN Daur U Female 21 Birmingham, Warwick, England Domestic Servant
John William GREEN Son U Male 19 Birmingham, Warwick, England Builders Clerk
Jane GREEN Daur U Female 18 Birmingham, Warwick, England Board School Teacher
Emma first appears in records m the 1841 census for Price Street in the district of St. Mary's. This census was taken in June 1841. I found this entry on 1841, Birmingham 4+, HO 107/1143 for House 2, Court 15, Price St. (Price Street seems to have run between Loveday St. and Lancaster Street more or less where St. Chad's Ringway now runs at the back of the Dental Hospital. St.Mary's Church was built as an annexe of St. Martin's from l779 onwards: elegant Georgian terraces once surrounded it. It became a Parish C'hurch in the 1830s but fell into decline and was eventually demolished. Price Street did not contain elegant Georgian houses but rather the smelly, insanitary courts ol back-to-back houses inhabited by the working classes of old Birmingham. In 1835 Price Street was on the northernmost edge of Birmingham.
1841, court 15, House 2. Price St.
William SHORT (Head), aged 40, Iron Caster, born Warwickshire
Mary Ann SHORT(Wife), aged 40 born outside the county.
Eliza SHORT (daughter), aged 15, born Warwickshire
Thomas SHORT (son), aged 15, born Warwickshire,
William SHORT(son), aged 10, born Warwickshire
Mary SHORT (daughter), aged 10, born Warwickshire
Emma SHORT (daughter), aged 6, born Warwickshire
James SHORT(son), aged 3, born Warwickshire
John SHORT (son), aged 1, born Warwickshireemail from Mike Short 8.4.2006
One child of this m. is known - John William SMITH b. 1861/2 is living with Eliza’s grandparents in 1871 but there may be more children b. betw. 1849 and 1861
Cen. 1851 living Little Francis Street, Aston with husband - coach smith
Cen. 1861 no trace1871 Cen. Eliza is with new husband and his children by previous marriage - her own child is with her parents. Second husband occupation is lawyer.
1881 census
9 Needham Street, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 3035/135 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Frances William GREEN Head M Male 48 Birmingham, Warwick, England Carpenter
Eliza Stone GREEN Wife M Female 59 Birmingham, Warwick, England ((Carpenter))
Elena GREEN Daur U Female 21 Birmingham, Warwick, England Domestic Servant
John William GREEN Son U Male 19 Birmingham, Warwick, England Builders Clerk
Jane GREEN Daur U Female 18 Birmingham, Warwick, England Board School Teacher
1891 death of Eliza Stone SHORT reg GREEN Mar Q 1891 Aston 1891 Cen at ‘Abbottsford’ 119 Charles Road, is Eliza’s son by her first marriage, who is a widowe,r (his wife was Mary Ann ABBOTT) with his son. Also present is Eliza’s second husband Francis William GREEN, now a ‘pattern maker’ with his daughter by his first marriage, Jane GREEN - a certified elementary school teacher.
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
Eleanor or Elena or Helena GREEN
1881 census
9 Needham Street, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 3035/135 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Frances William GREEN Head M Male 48 Birmingham, Warwick, England Carpenter
Eliza Stone GREEN Wife M Female 59 Birmingham, Warwick, England ((Carpenter))
Elena GREEN Daur U Female 21 Birmingham, Warwick, England Domestic Servant
John William GREEN Son U Male 19 Birmingham, Warwick, England Builders Clerk
Jane GREEN Daur U Female 18 Birmingham, Warwick, England Board School Teacher
1881 census
9 Needham Street, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 3035/135 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Frances William GREEN Head M Male 48 Birmingham, Warwick, England Carpenter
Eliza Stone GREEN Wife M Female 59 Birmingham, Warwick, England ((Carpenter))
Elena GREEN Daur U Female 21 Birmingham, Warwick, England Domestic Servant
John William GREEN Son U Male 19 Birmingham, Warwick, England Builders Clerk
Jane GREEN Daur U Female 18 Birmingham, Warwick, England Board School Teacher
Eleanor/Elena/Helena
1881 census
9 Needham Street, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 3035/135 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Frances William GREEN Head M Male 48 Birmingham, Warwick, England Carpenter
Eliza Stone GREEN Wife M Female 59 Birmingham, Warwick, England ((Carpenter))
Elena GREEN Daur U Female 21 Birmingham, Warwick, England Domestic Servant
John William GREEN Son U Male 19 Birmingham, Warwick, England Builders Clerk
Jane GREEN Daur U Female 18 Birmingham, Warwick, England Board School Teacher
email from Mike Short 8.4.2006
Eleanor or Elena or Helena GREEN
1881 census
9 Needham Street, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 3035/135 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Frances William GREEN Head M Male 48 Birmingham, Warwick, England Carpenter
Eliza Stone GREEN Wife M Female 59 Birmingham, Warwick, England ((Carpenter))
Elena GREEN Daur U Female 21 Birmingham, Warwick, England Domestic Servant
John William GREEN Son U Male 19 Birmingham, Warwick, England Builders Clerk
Jane GREEN Daur U Female 18 Birmingham, Warwick, England Board School Teacher
1881 census
9 Needham Street, Aston, Warwick, England
PRO RG11 Piece/Folio 3035/135 Page 30
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Frances William GREEN Head M Male 48 Birmingham, Warwick, England Carpenter
Eliza Stone GREEN Wife M Female 59 Birmingham, Warwick, England ((Carpenter))
Elena GREEN Daur U Female 21 Birmingham, Warwick, England Domestic Servant
John William GREEN Son U Male 19 Birmingham, Warwick, England Builders Clerk
Jane GREEN Daur U Female 18 Birmingham, Warwick, England Board School Teacher
Eleanor/Elena/Helena